Lisa Daugaard, civil rights attorney - "If there is no expectation of winning, there is not a good enough plan."

As a grad student Lisa worked to keep her college from kicking out anti-apartheid activists. Having found her calling, she went to law school instead. While there she worked to bring the rule of law to Guantanamo, where the US was warehousing Haitian refugees with AIDS. As a public defender in Seattle she successfully defended WTO protesters, and fought the police at every turn to end excessive use of force, bias in policing, and the war on drugs. Now she is at the table helping to implement Seattle Consent Decree with the Department of Justice. With cities around the country now going through DOJ investigations, Mike and Lisa talk about their experiences in Seattle, what works and what doesn’t, and what it means for places like Ferguson and Baltimore. It might surprise you.